I finally just "get it"

"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678) 04/02/2015 at 07:26 • Filed to: None

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Okay, so it has probably been at least a month or so since I have felt like I "get it" but now I am sure of it. When I bought my Miata in the beginning of November, the only thing I knew about driving with 3 pedals was how to engage first gear and move around a parking lot without stalling. Sure that may be one of the hardest parts, but its still not really driving. I basically learned to drive on the way home from buying the car and boy what an adventure that was!Anyways, over the last few months I have learned crawling smoothly in traffic, starting on hills, downshifting, and obtaining maximum fuel efficiency. Everything mostly made sense after the first couple of weeks of driving, but I still had to actively think about every move. Getting in an automatic car still felt "natural" and I was not fully adjusted. But now, I don't even have to think about what to do with my feet, they just do it. Downshifting comes as naturally as turning on a turn signal when I want to turn. I know I still have room to improve on crawling in traffic (without burning the clutch) and I must have done some damage to my clutch life, but it is totally worth it to have this new skill. And of course, thank you to the oppo/jalop community for convincing me that driving manual is a way of life, the ONLY way of life lol.

(not my car, but sure is a close to exact replica! )

Leon711 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:30

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Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Leon711 04/02/2015 at 07:34

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I want to know how the hell they got a third person in a Miata and could still drive on the road.

DoYouEvenShift > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:36

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Welcome to the 3 pedals club

JCAlan > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:36

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Nice! I've always said you can teach someone to drive a stick in one lesson, but it takes about a year of daily driving one to actually fully get it. It's like, I can explain the rules of Euchre to you in five minutes, but you won't have a clue about what the game is even really about (ego, bluffing, risk taking, a connection with your partner, and playing different styles based on the situation) until you've practiced a ton.

Leon711 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:40

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driver is 4ft?

C9200 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:42

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Good stuff!

I remember learning in my dad's Toyota Dyna (5 spd column shift) when I was 12 (we lived on a farm so no one cared that a kid was driving). Being a diesel truck, it had plenty of low down torque so you could literally get moving by releasing the clutch and not giving it any gas. My dad was in the process of selling the farm to a guy who had never driven a manual before - he was gobsmacked the first time he saw me in it.

5 yrs later I got a 5 spd Nissan Pulsar and learnt to drive it on the way home. Having a weazy little 1.6 with no torque made it much more tricky but I got the hang of it much like you did. Scariest bit was hill starts when some asshat had tail gated me.

deekster_caddy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:49

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Nice! My only tip for traffic driving is that you usually don't need as high an RPM as you think you need to get it moving. If traffic is going 0-20-5-35-10-30-0 you can usually get it into 3rd and leave it there until you stop again (or get down to 5 and have to drop to 2nd) - that will reduce the amount of shifting you feel you need to do. As long as traffic is moving, it should be in a gear with the clutch released.

Enjoy! I love love love driving a manual, even in heavy traffic!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > JCAlan 04/02/2015 at 07:50

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A year? Man people are slow lol. I have also already driven about 5k miles in 5 months so that might have sped things along.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > deekster_caddy 04/02/2015 at 07:57

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Well yeah, heavy traffic is actually fun now! The first time I really ever was in traffic was for about a half hour on the NJ Turnpike heading north for a camping trip. It was a harrowing experience of trying to not stall and keep with the flow of traffic. I learned way more about driving in that half hour than the two weeks or so of regular driving before that. Now, traffic is entertaining and not just let me stare into space and hope this goes away eventually (unless I really have to pee, then it still sucks). Anyways, what I have found to be the most helpful is to leave the car in second, even if I stop (as long as it is not uphill). Then the car does not shudder when the gas/clutch balance is off and so everything moves smoothly.

Tim (Fractal Footwork) > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 07:59

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I've been driving stick for around 7ish years now and here are some things I'm still working on:

Okay, the first one I have down but I see other people do it a lot without thinking ill of it: (1) giving it enough gas during a shift so that is doesnt lurch then jiggle the car.

(2) Blipping the throttle during heavy braking downshifts. No idea how to do this one and where I probably need and instructor and some track time to get my head around.

(3) Managing oversteer. I can't really test this one out on the public roads, no mater how much my prepubescent self thinks it's a good idea. Though I can hold my car sideways in the snow like nobody's business. The trouble with my Genesis is that the front end bites back really hard if you try to manage oversteer from off the line and release throttle to manage.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 04/02/2015 at 08:06

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Yes, heel-toe shifting is definitely the next thing on my list of things to learn, but that wont really be relevant until I start auto-crossing the car. I would say my 1st-2nd shifts are still not perfect, but everything else between 2nd-6th in both directions is nearly flawless. I think the only part of downshifting I have trouble with is going from 6th to 4th or some other skipping gear shift. I usually just quickly go through every gear, even if I don't intend on using it at all. The one time I tried going 6th to 4th, I ended up in second, which was quite a jolt, but actually worked quite effectively for the turn.

jjhats > JCAlan 04/02/2015 at 08:31

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this. I was able to grannyshift my way in many sticks for about 3 years only driving one every few months or so never fully getting the whole thing. 3 months into my ST im not an expert but am so much better than I was. It really does start to feel natural you don't rely on the tach as much you skip gears up and down its all very fluid

OPPOsaurus WRX > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 08:43

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good luck with the heal toe. I got my WRX last January and stalled it at the first red light ( it was only my second time on public roads.) I didn;t enjoy the first month, I was afriad of hurting the car, crashing and pissing off other people. it took about a month for me to feel comfortable and 6 to get real smooth with all my shifts. I feel like the WRX if very unforgiving with the slightest error

jjhats > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 04/02/2015 at 08:45

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1. This one is the hardest but for most people this only happens in 1 -2 shift situation. you can try revving higher than your used to then quickly shifting to 2 but it really depends on your engine and what it likes.

2. I don't like the word blip even though it is exactly what race car drivers are doing. in reality you should be doing what you do when you start off. which is rev it up and keep it there aka hold your foot on the accelerator and keep the rpms glued to where they should be. if you just blip the throttle and aren't fast enough then the rpms will just die as soon as you let off so its not good for beginners. Generally the more gears you drop aka 4-2 or 5-2 will require a larger rev to maybe 2500. if your doing 4-3 or 3-2 you almost don't even have to blip it at all as long as you do this from a low rpm where the engine is bogging. again just practice with different rpms and see what works. the process is clutch in downshift rev to 2500 or so and keep it there then gently let the clutch out. don't blip or try to heel toe at first these are hard to do for beginners

3. I cant help at all with this. in my car (FWD) you just need to rev it up to 5k before a corner and lift off the gas and the car swivels into a nice slide

Sethersm > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 08:46

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Driving a stick is like golf or sailing. You can learn how to do it in 5 minutes, but it will take the rest of your life to learn to do it really well. I've been driving stick for 20 years, I still screw up on occasion.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Sethersm 04/02/2015 at 08:53

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I stalled the car once at a stop sign a couple weeks ago (had been the first time in months really) and I just started laughing. I can definitely see more room for improvement, which is just an excuse to take random drives for no reason other than to drive.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/02/2015 at 08:56

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My Miata is only unforgiving in first gear. It will stall for sure if I don't know what I am doing. I know I have gotten in other cars where it was almost impossible to stall it and you didn't need ANY gas pedal to get it going. But the other 5 gears where pretty easy from day one. I am glad I do not miss gears by accident anymore though. 2nd-5th shifts were the worst!

OPPOsaurus WRX > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 09:06

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I live on a 45 mph street so I often go 2-4. I occasionally get on the highway and go for 6th but stop becuase 6th would actually be R and well that would be bad. I let my father drive my car. He hadn;t owned a manual probably since I was born. He wasn;t expecting how easy it was to shift. I thought he was tryin to throw the stick into the back seat and he ended up bouncing it back into N and reving the engine. I got a good laugh, no damage done.

WhiskeyGolf > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 09:13

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One of the things you'll notice now is how inconsistent people drive in slow moving traffic. By this I mean you'll try to maintain a steady speed to create a buffer with the car in front and the cars behind/front will constantly shift closer/farther from you, and at some point someone will jump into your space. I've had one driver go from behind me to in front because I was driving steady, all to gain about 4 seconds. Welcome to the brotherhood!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > OPPOsaurus WRX 04/02/2015 at 09:29

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I think my favorite part about manual transmissions is that every car is different. Even two of the same model and year could be different. It just adds so much character to a car. To me its less about manual shifting in general that makes it cool, but more so that it just really makes each and every car unique in some way. Automatic cars are always the same. It just immediately becomes an appliance, no matter how raucous the exhaust is, how fast the car accelerates, or anything else. An autotragic just makes the car become a refrigerator or dishwasher; it does its job really well and makes life easier, but its easily replaceable with another one.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Tim (Fractal Footwork) 04/02/2015 at 09:32

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practice heel-toe downshifts while parked and with the engine off. There's no one-method that works for all cars and all foot sizes. practice until it's comfortable.. and then start doing it while driving.

You're right that you'll need track time to really dial it in, as it's not really the best method to learn on the streets.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > WhiskeyGolf 04/02/2015 at 09:34

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I mean, this was true even before I started driving manual. The biggest change now is that I rarely use my brakes unless I am coming to a complete halt. I notice that so many other cars ride the brakes or lightly tap them in moderate but moving traffic. I do not touch the brakes unless I get cut off or something else drastic. And now with engine braking, I really never use the middle pedal. I will never understand why many people use the gas/brake as basically on/off switches and don't coast nearly as much. My commute to work hits about 5 traffic lights along the way and every one often ends up being red in the distance. However, I rarely ever come to a complete stop because I start coasting as soon as the light is not green and by the time I get there, it has changed back again.

WhiskeyGolf > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 10:06

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Haha yeah, every time I get my car inspected I'm surprised how little wear I have on my brakes, even after 1 track "driving lesson". Of course, now that I'm starting to really get heel-toeing, every corner is a track and I approach it a little fast...

DarrenMR > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 10:21

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"I basically learned to drive on the way home from buying the car"

I did that with my Miata as well. Bought the car 5 hours away from where I lived, and had very minimal manual experience.

MarquetteLa > Leon711 04/02/2015 at 10:36

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The driver is the tallest of the 3 guys haha.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 10:44

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Woo! Great feeling... I went through these feels ~20 years ago. What's great about driving a manual is that it's one of those things that is somewhat easy to learn, but can take a lifetime to master. I've gone my whole driving life with a manual in my daily driver, and I honestly can't imagine having it any other way. The control and connection are just too enjoyable to give up, regardless of whether it's no longer the faster, more efficient, or "better" choice.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > DarrenMR 04/02/2015 at 10:45

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My favorite part was stalling the car immediately after exiting the driveway of the guy I bought it from. I just laughed and thought "this is gonna be a long drive". But much of the trip was spent in 6th gear on a highway so it wasn't so bad. I had absolutely no idea how to put the top down though and was too nervous to figure it out lol. It was actually the warmest day I have ever driven the car yet so I just had the AC on (which is nice to know it works at least). Now, the top spends more time down than it does up (while driving).

Leon711 > MarquetteLa 04/02/2015 at 10:50

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person behind is a double amputee?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 10:52

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A fun trick in heavy traffic (test out in a parking lot first) is to get going so smoothly with just the right momentum in 1st or 2nd that you can actually let off the gas completely while in gear and let the car idle along. I also try to give myself a little gap and then see how long I can go without touching the brakes or clutch.

It's funny - some people absolutely hate having a manual in heavy traffic, but I'm with you: it makes it an interesting challenge. Granted - I'm only in bumper-to-bumper stuff occasionally. If I had to deal with an hour of it every day, I'd probably think differently.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Sethersm 04/02/2015 at 10:53

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And you can always improve your skills.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/02/2015 at 10:57

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From a more efficient standpoint, I enjoy that I can choose between fuel efficient or "fuck it, I want to go fast". With an automatic, it was just use less gas pedal and it might get me better mileage (but not always since the trans would shift whenever it pleased). I like being able to redline the car or shift it at 2k rpms depending on my mood. Hence why I end up with a gas mileage range of 18-31 lol. But either way, I have way more fun no matter what way I am driving.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/02/2015 at 11:01

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Yeah, bumper to bumper stuff is really rare for me. My commute is 10-15 minutes and I can take mostly country roads and get home in 20. So I generally only do my real driving for fun at more off-peak times anyways. I could definitely see it being a bother if I had to do bumper-bumper crap every day and had like a bum knee or something. And yes, I have actually tried that out in a parking lot and gotten it to work. It was cool for sure, but I haven't been able to work it into normal driving yet. I guess it is more of a practice exercise than anything, but it would be useful in the slow moving traffic stuff to use it.

DarrenMR > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 11:04

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We stopped at a rest stop and I stalled it in the parking lot, then I gave it too much gas and did an accidental donut.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 11:48

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Seems like you're well on your way.

So, thoughts on the ND?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 04/02/2015 at 11:53

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I have a V8, but I stick keep the revs about 3k all the time around town.

I've thought about doing a full tank attempting to see what the highest mileage possible is, but I can't bring myself to do it. Just too fun to press down the go pedal!

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/02/2015 at 13:25

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I hear ya there. Especially with that V8 sound hnnnnnnng.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > DarrenMR 04/02/2015 at 13:26

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"accidental" surrrrrrrre =p